Comments on: Reasons not to steal bandwidth http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/ Tom Raftery, social media consultant, speaker, blogger and podcaster Sat, 13 Jun 2009 07:24:00 +0100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: kirk http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/comment-page-2/#comment-110880 kirk Sat, 22 Sep 2007 17:11:51 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/#comment-110880 I am for the hell of it, going to hot link the pitcture saying Noah is a bandwidth theif :) I am for the hell of it, going to hot link the pitcture saying Noah is a bandwidth theif :)

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By: Tom Raftery http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/comment-page-2/#comment-46560 Tom Raftery Sun, 22 Oct 2006 09:58:54 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/#comment-46560 Talina, the best way to find this out is to keep an eye on your site stats - if you see a lot of traffic coming from a site or an image being downloaded a lot, then you start to get suspicious. In this case, I have an RSS search for my domain name and this found the hotlinked image. Hope this helps. Talina, the best way to find this out is to keep an eye on your site stats – if you see a lot of traffic coming from a site or an image being downloaded a lot, then you start to get suspicious.

In this case, I have an RSS search for my domain name and this found the hotlinked image.

Hope this helps.

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By: Talina http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/comment-page-1/#comment-46098 Talina Sat, 21 Oct 2006 18:47:52 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/#comment-46098 I am just now leaning about hotlinking images and I don't want my images hotlinked so I went through my own blog and began to undo all the hotlinking I had done. I know that many people simply "copy the image location" because they may not know any better, I didn't. This was a new concept for me so I am sure others out there are unaware of how bad hotlinking is. The more talk of hotlinking the more people will know and understand what they are doing. My question is how does one find that their images is being hotlinked?? I am just now leaning about hotlinking images and I don’t want my images hotlinked so I went through my own blog and began to undo all the hotlinking I had done.

I know that many people simply “copy the image location” because they may not know any better, I didn’t. This was a new concept for me so I am sure others out there are unaware of how bad hotlinking is. The more talk of hotlinking the more people will know and understand what they are doing. My question is how does one find that their images is being hotlinked??

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By: Stephen Downey http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/comment-page-1/#comment-44503 Stephen Downey Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:17:20 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/#comment-44503 I'm not going to get into who is wrong and who is right as I think that has been discussed to death already. Just wanted to say that it might be an idea to update the permalink name from "noah-kagan-is-a-thief", as well as the title. I’m not going to get into who is wrong and who is right as I think that has been discussed to death already. Just wanted to say that it might be an idea to update the permalink name from “noah-kagan-is-a-thief”, as well as the title.

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By: - http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/comment-page-1/#comment-43734 - Wed, 18 Oct 2006 18:19:32 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/#comment-43734 comment deleted at commenters request comment deleted at commenters request

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By: lupan sensei http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/comment-page-1/#comment-43713 lupan sensei Wed, 18 Oct 2006 17:52:47 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/#comment-43713 Tom - get a grip. nuff said. Tom – get a grip. nuff said.

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By: Allen http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/comment-page-1/#comment-43490 Allen Wed, 18 Oct 2006 12:35:29 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/#comment-43490 <a href="http://www.bullyonline.org/related/cyber.htm"></a>

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By: Tom Raftery http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/comment-page-1/#comment-43375 Tom Raftery Wed, 18 Oct 2006 10:19:09 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/#comment-43375 Wow Conor - no idea how that happened - that is an old mothballed site - I have now taken it down and updated the link. Thanks for letting me know. Wow Conor – no idea how that happened – that is an old mothballed site – I have now taken it down and updated the link.

Thanks for letting me know.

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By: Conor http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/comment-page-1/#comment-43345 Conor Wed, 18 Oct 2006 09:56:32 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/#comment-43345 Tom, Just to let you know when clicking on 'Tom Raftery' (two posts up) brings to www.tomandpilar.net site which generates 8 virus alerts. All are trojan types. I've never came across a website that provoked so many virus alerts - my virus log (within virtual machine) logged first time for two years! You would want to check it out fast. Virus types: new[1].htm - VBS/Psyme (Trojan) fil_mem[1].htm - JS/Exploit-BO.gen (Trojan) sploit[1].anr - Exploit-ANIfile (Trojan) Conor D. Tom,

Just to let you know when clicking on ‘Tom Raftery’ (two posts up) brings to http://www.tomandpilar.net site which generates 8 virus alerts. All are trojan types. I’ve never came across a website that provoked so many virus alerts – my virus log (within virtual machine) logged first time for two years! You would want to check it out fast.

Virus types:
new[1].htm – VBS/Psyme (Trojan)
fil_mem[1].htm – JS/Exploit-BO.gen (Trojan)
sploit[1].anr – Exploit-ANIfile (Trojan)

Conor D.

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By: arseblogger http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/comment-page-1/#comment-43314 arseblogger Wed, 18 Oct 2006 09:20:33 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/#comment-43314 Perhaps over the top but it can be a serious issue for some sites. Until I started using hotlink protection people stealing my images for their sites were costing me 100s of megabytes of bandwidth each month. Perhaps over the top but it can be a serious issue for some sites. Until I started using hotlink protection people stealing my images for their sites were costing me 100s of megabytes of bandwidth each month.

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By: Conor http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/comment-page-1/#comment-43245 Conor Wed, 18 Oct 2006 07:06:20 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/#comment-43245 Tom, It's irrelevant if if was well blogged or you gave attribution, you don't make the copyright laws. You infringed the copyright of the New Yorker, had no right to show that cartoon and quite possibly owe them fees based on the number of page views you received. Some might characterize it as "copyright theft" or "copyright stealing". In this particular case I think we are dealing with some glass houses. And I'll be honest, I think I may be guilty of the same thing as Noah once or twice in the past. I'd better go check those links to make sure I don't get flamed too. Tom,
It’s irrelevant if if was well blogged or you gave attribution, you don’t make the copyright laws. You infringed the copyright of the New Yorker, had no right to show that cartoon and quite possibly owe them fees based on the number of page views you received. Some might characterize it as “copyright theft” or “copyright stealing”. In this particular case I think we are dealing with some glass houses.

And I’ll be honest, I think I may be guilty of the same thing as Noah once or twice in the past. I’d better go check those links to make sure I don’t get flamed too.

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By: Tom Raftery http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/comment-page-1/#comment-43053 Tom Raftery Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:59:30 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/#comment-43053 Ben & Conor - I didn't really raise an issue of netiquette - Noah did when he said he had every right to use stuff from my site as it was Creative Commons licenced. In my original post I never mentioned that and I was annoyed with him for stealing my bandwidth. Conor - if you remember that posting of that cartoon, you will also remember that it was a particularly well blogged cartoon at the time, making it onto Techmeme and being re-blogged all over. I was one of the few who linked directly back to the source (attribution) and said I would happily take it down, if asked. John - the title was changed from Noah is a thief to he is a <em>bandwidth</em> stealer - there is a significant difference there, I think. Plus there is an explanatory update at the <em>top</em> of the posting so that will be the first thing anyone reads if they come across the article now. Ben & Conor – I didn’t really raise an issue of netiquette – Noah did when he said he had every right to use stuff from my site as it was Creative Commons licenced. In my original post I never mentioned that and I was annoyed with him for stealing my bandwidth.

Conor – if you remember that posting of that cartoon, you will also remember that it was a particularly well blogged cartoon at the time, making it onto Techmeme and being re-blogged all over. I was one of the few who linked directly back to the source (attribution) and said I would happily take it down, if asked.

John – the title was changed from Noah is a thief to he is a bandwidth stealer – there is a significant difference there, I think. Plus there is an explanatory update at the top of the posting so that will be the first thing anyone reads if they come across the article now.

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By: John http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/comment-page-1/#comment-42967 John Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:58:15 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/#comment-42967 Hmmm, relegated from a someone who thieves to someone who steals. I'm sure he will be delighted. }:-) Regards John Hmmm, relegated from a someone who thieves to someone who steals.

I’m sure he will be delighted. }:-)

Regards

John

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By: Conor http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/comment-page-1/#comment-42913 Conor Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:42:37 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/#comment-42913 I'm afraid I'm with the majority here Tom and particularly with Ben's comment. I remember when you did the original post with the cartoon and my first thought was that it was another good un from the New Yorker. I've posted Dilbert cartoons on my blog before and I've stated that I am probably committing copyright infringement, just as you are with the original post. I’m afraid I’m with the majority here Tom and particularly with Ben’s comment.

I remember when you did the original post with the cartoon and my first thought was that it was another good un from the New Yorker.

I’ve posted Dilbert cartoons on my blog before and I’ve stated that I am probably committing copyright infringement, just as you are with the original post.

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By: Ben Good http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/comment-page-1/#comment-42663 Ben Good Tue, 17 Oct 2006 13:54:34 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/#comment-42663 Tom I agree with some of the other commenters- this is way over the top. Maybe it's the kind of treatment you'd give to a persistent infringer who failed to respond to your emails, but as a first shot across the bows it's hugely disportionate. From his comments, this Noah guy seems contrite and reasonable, and I think he has a genuine concern about a prospective employer googling his name and coming up with this post- particularly if said employer isn't all that net literate and doesn't realise how commonplace this is. Not sure the change of title helps matters much- granted there's a small difference between calling someone a "thief" and a "stealer", but this still sounds like a non-retraction retraction to me. How about using your "How not to steal bandwidth" title? If you're going to raise an issue about netiquette, you're not in a very strong position with this cartoon. You stated in your post "I have no idea of the legality of reproducing and editing the said cartoon, so if the owner/creator contacts me I’ll take em off straight away!" but surely the onus is on you to find out, and it shouldn't have taken you too long. Like all new New Yorker cartoons, licencing rights are held by the New Yorker's cartoon division, www.cartoonbank.com. Their website states that "Images that appeared in The New Yorker cannot be altered in any way. All our images, including those presented on this site, are copyright protected and cannot be used in any way without permission from The Cartoon Bank, a New Yorker Company." I can't imagine them charging for use on a personal blog, but if you were licensing this image for commercial use on a not-for profit website for a month, it would cost $200 if your hits were under 25k a month, $240 if over. Let me just say as well that I generally really like your site, and I'm sorry that my first comment is such a flamer, but this post just got me hot under the collar. Incidentally, you can get that cartoon on a greeting card now too- I've one up on my mantlepiece right now. Tom

I agree with some of the other commenters- this is way over the top. Maybe it’s the kind of treatment you’d give to a persistent infringer who failed to respond to your emails, but as a first shot across the bows it’s hugely disportionate. From his comments, this Noah guy seems contrite and reasonable, and I think he has a genuine concern about a prospective employer googling his name and coming up with this post- particularly if said employer isn’t all that net literate and doesn’t realise how commonplace this is. Not sure the change of title helps matters much- granted there’s a small difference between calling someone a “thief” and a “stealer”, but this still sounds like a non-retraction retraction to me. How about using your “How not to steal bandwidth” title?

If you’re going to raise an issue about netiquette, you’re not in a very strong position with this cartoon. You stated in your post “I have no idea of the legality of reproducing and editing the said cartoon, so if the owner/creator contacts me I’ll take em off straight away!” but surely the onus is on you to find out, and it shouldn’t have taken you too long. Like all new New Yorker cartoons, licencing rights are held by the New Yorker’s cartoon division, http://www.cartoonbank.com. Their website states that “Images that appeared in The New Yorker cannot be altered in any way. All our images, including those presented on this site, are copyright protected and cannot be used in any way without permission from The Cartoon Bank, a New Yorker Company.” I can’t imagine them charging for use on a personal blog, but if you were licensing this image for commercial use on a not-for profit website for a month, it would cost $200 if your hits were under 25k a month, $240 if over.

Let me just say as well that I generally really like your site, and I’m sorry that my first comment is such a flamer, but this post just got me hot under the collar. Incidentally, you can get that cartoon on a greeting card now too- I’ve one up on my mantlepiece right now.

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By: John Butler http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/comment-page-1/#comment-42623 John Butler Tue, 17 Oct 2006 12:21:33 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/#comment-42623 Karen: Wikipedia defines bandwidth theft here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwidth_theft Karen:
Wikipedia defines bandwidth theft here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwidth_theft

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By: Karen http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/comment-page-1/#comment-42614 Karen Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:57:24 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/#comment-42614 I'm just a bit confused over what he actually did wrong...was it that he used an image and didn't link to it, just put it up like it was his own image? Cos say if I was blogging about, for example, a man in a hat..I'd go to Google Images and find a pic of a man in a hat to illustrate my post. Then I'd include a link as to where I got the pic...is that wrong? I thought once you said where you got the pic and said that it was borrowed or 'courtesy of' that this would be ok, particularly if it wasn't for commercial gain, just to illustrate your post. Gosh I didn't realise it might be wrong to do that. Is it? I don't understand anything about bandwith either, I'm really really not good at this technical stuff! Arse, I hope I haven't been doing anything illegal. I thought calling Noah a thief was a bit OTT to be honest, but like I said I'm ignorant of all things computer-y, so maybe it was stealing. I’m just a bit confused over what he actually did wrong…was it that he used an image and didn’t link to it, just put it up like it was his own image? Cos say if I was blogging about, for example, a man in a hat..I’d go to Google Images and find a pic of a man in a hat to illustrate my post. Then I’d include a link as to where I got the pic…is that wrong? I thought once you said where you got the pic and said that it was borrowed or ‘courtesy of’ that this would be ok, particularly if it wasn’t for commercial gain, just to illustrate your post. Gosh I didn’t realise it might be wrong to do that. Is it?

I don’t understand anything about bandwith either, I’m really really not good at this technical stuff! Arse, I hope I haven’t been doing anything illegal.

I thought calling Noah a thief was a bit OTT to be honest, but like I said I’m ignorant of all things computer-y, so maybe it was stealing.

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By: Tom Raftery http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/comment-page-1/#comment-42608 Tom Raftery Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:39:05 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/#comment-42608 John - I do think so and thanks for your comments on this. If you check the top of this post you will see I have changed the title of the post and added an update to the post reflecting this. John – I do think so and thanks for your comments on this.

If you check the top of this post you will see I have changed the title of the post and added an update to the post reflecting this.

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By: John Butler http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/comment-page-1/#comment-42607 John Butler Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:30:20 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/#comment-42607 Tom, What Noah did isn't good practice, he was in the wrong. I understand that blogging is your preferred method of communication but you have done yourself no favours in making this post, such a head on attack over what can surely be a tiny bit of bandwidth is unwarranted and over the top, do you not think you may have over-reacted? Even just a little bit? Tom,
What Noah did isn’t good practice, he was in the wrong.
I understand that blogging is your preferred method of communication but you have done yourself no favours in making this post, such a head on attack over what can surely be a tiny bit of bandwidth is unwarranted and over the top, do you not think you may have over-reacted? Even just a little bit?

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By: Tom Raftery http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/comment-page-1/#comment-42599 Tom Raftery Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:17:40 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/noah-kagan-is-a-thief/#comment-42599 Ken - I am genuinely sorry to hear that. John - in fairness, I invited Google to crawl my site and I post for people who read my site. I see no reason why I should be subsidising Noah's costs. John (Butler) - John, rightly or wrongly blogging is my preferred method of communication in situations like this. I think had I taken a different approach to my blog post, (more humourous, less bad tempered) people might have been less outraged. Aidan - Fair point, thanks. Ken – I am genuinely sorry to hear that.

John – in fairness, I invited Google to crawl my site and I post for people who read my site. I see no reason why I should be subsidising Noah’s costs.

John (Butler) – John, rightly or wrongly blogging is my preferred method of communication in situations like this. I think had I taken a different approach to my blog post, (more humourous, less bad tempered) people might have been less outraged.

Aidan – Fair point, thanks.

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