Comments on: Monster threaten legal action and ask me to blame someone else! http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/ Tom Raftery, social media consultant, speaker, blogger and podcaster Wed, 25 Aug 2010 13:33:09 +0100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: Hell Hath No Fury… « The Marvellous Mechanical Mouse Organ http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/comment-page-1/#comment-111563 Hell Hath No Fury… « The Marvellous Mechanical Mouse Organ Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:10:21 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/#comment-111563 [...] get more fun as Tom Raftery blogs about it and then gets threatened with legal action unless he finds a patsy. Damien Mulley joins in and then submits the story to Digg. Now the whole thing is going to be [...] [...] get more fun as Tom Raftery blogs about it and then gets threatened with legal action unless he finds a patsy. Damien Mulley joins in and then submits the story to Digg. Now the whole thing is going to be [...]

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By: Celtictigger http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/comment-page-1/#comment-111310 Celtictigger Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:29:31 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/#comment-111310 Story is... 1) silly person who is new to job makes mistake 2) silly person doesn't acknowledge mistake and apologise 3) people who were stewards of the mailing list publish their side of the issue 4) things go a little silly as silly person compounds mistake by digging in heels and making threats of legal action to people who know the legal situation better than the silly person. 5) Silly Person's boss eventually gets involved, points out silly person did a silly thing that the company had said not to do, apologises and trys to make things better. Moral of the story is that the cover up is what gets you not the crime (hello Nixon). Also, taking other people's mailing lists and pasting them into outlook is NOT clever, smart or grown up... it is ILLEGAL and UNETHICAL. Finally, wise bosses know that people make mistakes but would much rather they follow the usage policies and guidelines that they've had written up so that everyone (silly person, wise boss and data subject) are protected. My personal hope is that Mr Burns is NOT fired... he was new, naive and made a stooooopid error of judgement. I do hope his story becomes part of the corporate culture in Monster ("did you get that mailing list from a legit source? It's important - remember what happened to Burnsy back in 2007. He was left looking like a twit on the Internet and had to be bailed out..."). As for Pedro... anonymity on the Internet is a relative myth.. Story is…
1) silly person who is new to job makes mistake
2) silly person doesn’t acknowledge mistake and apologise
3) people who were stewards of the mailing list publish their side of the issue
4) things go a little silly as silly person compounds mistake by digging in heels and making threats of legal action to people who know the legal situation better than the silly person.
5) Silly Person’s boss eventually gets involved, points out silly person did a silly thing that the company had said not to do, apologises and trys to make things better.

Moral of the story is that the cover up is what gets you not the crime (hello Nixon). Also, taking other people’s mailing lists and pasting them into outlook is NOT clever, smart or grown up… it is ILLEGAL and UNETHICAL. Finally, wise bosses know that people make mistakes but would much rather they follow the usage policies and guidelines that they’ve had written up so that everyone (silly person, wise boss and data subject) are protected.

My personal hope is that Mr Burns is NOT fired… he was new, naive and made a stooooopid error of judgement. I do hope his story becomes part of the corporate culture in Monster (”did you get that mailing list from a legit source? It’s important – remember what happened to Burnsy back in 2007. He was left looking like a twit on the Internet and had to be bailed out…”).

As for Pedro… anonymity on the Internet is a relative myth..

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By: Tom Raftery http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/comment-page-1/#comment-111296 Tom Raftery Mon, 08 Oct 2007 08:34:22 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/#comment-111296 flattea - we attempted to resolve it behind the scenes. John was contacted directly by it@cork and was completely unrepentant. He neither apologised for his actions nor did he say he wouldn't do it again. flattea – we attempted to resolve it behind the scenes. John was contacted directly by it@cork and was completely unrepentant. He neither apologised for his actions nor did he say he wouldn’t do it again.

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By: flattea http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/comment-page-1/#comment-111282 flattea Sun, 07 Oct 2007 20:40:08 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/#comment-111282 Seems a bit harsh on the guy, surely could have been sorted out behind the scences. He clearly did wrong and though left a silly voice message it smacks of the smug tech savvie brigade having their fun without thinking of the consequences. Just my tuppenceworth but good blog all the same. Seems a bit harsh on the guy, surely could have been sorted out behind the scences. He clearly did wrong and though left a silly voice message it smacks of the smug tech savvie brigade having their fun without thinking of the consequences.

Just my tuppenceworth but good blog all the same.

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By: segovia103 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/comment-page-1/#comment-111200 segovia103 Thu, 04 Oct 2007 01:48:05 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/#comment-111200 I originally picked up on this story from digg and followed it to http://www.mneylon.com/blog/. It really seems like a massive over reaction from a group of cliquey, smug bloggers who have little else to worry about. The short story is that some newbie at Monster sent out a bunch of emails trying to impress his boss. When tackled by Michele Neylon about this he became a bit embarrassed, flustered and defensive, probably hoping the 'issue' would go away. Essentially he made a mistake and then became defensive about it - who can honestly say they have never done that? Plus we aren't privy to the contents of the telephone conversation between John Burns and Michele which led to the later blog entry. Undoubtedly M was really nice to him on the phone and not at all antagonistic but he just refused to apologize. I mean that's how these type of phone conversations usually pan out, right? Congratulations to Michele and Tom for humiliating this guy and possibly costing him his job. I'd recommend using a better spam filter and/or learning to use the delete button when it comes to your email. I've nothing to do with the guy btw, I just caught it on digg and after listening to his voicemail got annoyed enough leave this comment. Hmmm, misdirected outrage and too much time on my hands, maybe I should start a blog too? I originally picked up on this story from digg and followed it to http://www.mneylon.com/blog/. It really seems like a massive over reaction from a group of cliquey, smug bloggers who have little else to worry about.

The short story is that some newbie at Monster sent out a bunch of emails trying to impress his boss. When tackled by Michele Neylon about this he became a bit embarrassed, flustered and defensive, probably hoping the ‘issue’ would go away.

Essentially he made a mistake and then became defensive about it – who can honestly say they have never done that?

Plus we aren’t privy to the contents of the telephone conversation between John Burns and Michele which led to the later blog entry. Undoubtedly M was really nice to him on the phone and not at all antagonistic but he just refused to apologize. I mean that’s how these type of phone conversations usually pan out, right?

Congratulations to Michele and Tom for humiliating this guy and possibly costing him his job. I’d recommend using a better spam filter and/or learning to use the delete button when it comes to your email.

I’ve nothing to do with the guy btw, I just caught it on digg and after listening to his voicemail got annoyed enough leave this comment. Hmmm, misdirected outrage and too much time on my hands, maybe I should start a blog too?

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By: Kevin Peyton http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/comment-page-1/#comment-111191 Kevin Peyton Wed, 03 Oct 2007 20:21:16 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/#comment-111191 reminder to self : never leave voice mail for Tom 8) reminder to self : never leave voice mail for Tom 8)

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By: Anonymous http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/comment-page-1/#comment-111189 Anonymous Wed, 03 Oct 2007 19:35:31 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/#comment-111189 reading the other blogs it seems a number of Cork IT heads rang him that first day and he wasn't very amenable...so maybe it was blog worthy, Business Development Manager sheesh! reading the other blogs it seems a number of Cork IT heads rang him that first day and he wasn’t very amenable…so maybe it was blog worthy, Business Development Manager sheesh!

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By: steve white http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/comment-page-1/#comment-111188 steve white Wed, 03 Oct 2007 19:18:10 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/#comment-111188 it seems to be a confusion on his part, and many peoples' part about blogging about what should be blogged about, something happened that morning and then that evening a blog post is up about it! his first mail to chris? didn't seem too attacking, so maybe it needn't have been blogged about or his name specified at that point?... although I think the confusion he had was that he shouldn't be blogged about like that, but you were blogging about as Monster’s Business Development Manager (John Burns) not him personally. it seems to be a confusion on his part, and many peoples’ part about blogging about what should be blogged about, something happened that morning and then that evening a blog post is up about it! his first mail to chris? didn’t seem too attacking, so maybe it needn’t have been blogged about or his name specified at that point?… although I think the confusion he had was that he shouldn’t be blogged about like that, but you were blogging about as Monster’s Business Development Manager (John Burns) not him personally.

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By: Tom Raftery http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/comment-page-1/#comment-111182 Tom Raftery Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:39:16 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/#comment-111182 54hmr0(k - Monster have officially apologised in an email to me. See <a href="http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-apologise/">this post</a> for more. 54hmr0(k – Monster have officially apologised in an email to me. See this post for more.

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By: 54hmr0 (k) http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/comment-page-1/#comment-111178 54hmr0 (k) Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:44:01 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/#comment-111178 He broke the law first by SPAMING. The fine is per spam message - not a flat rate. I don't think that there's any problems putting up the recording - he knew it was being recorded since it was preceeded with a leave a message after the beep message (and then a beep) He messed up, but he should have learned when to stop digging. For the apparent lack of an official reply from Monster (who I'm sure won't be worried about how John Burns comes out of this) I'd guess that they haven't heard about it....yet. He broke the law first by SPAMING. The fine is per spam message – not a flat rate.

I don’t think that there’s any problems putting up the recording – he knew it was being recorded since it was preceeded with a leave a message after the beep message (and then a beep)

He messed up, but he should have learned when to stop digging.

For the apparent lack of an official reply from Monster (who I’m sure won’t be worried about how John Burns comes out of this) I’d guess that they haven’t heard about it….yet.

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By: Tom Raftery http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/comment-page-1/#comment-111177 Tom Raftery Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:01:02 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/#comment-111177 John - publishing a voicemail left on my phone or extracts of an email John sent me in no way breaches the Data Protection Acts. Had I published an entire email, there is an outside chance of being in breach of copyright, but there is no data protection implications there. John – publishing a voicemail left on my phone or extracts of an email John sent me in no way breaches the Data Protection Acts.

Had I published an entire email, there is an outside chance of being in breach of copyright, but there is no data protection implications there.

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By: John Ward http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/comment-page-1/#comment-111175 John Ward Wed, 03 Oct 2007 13:52:16 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/#comment-111175 Tom, You've raised a good point. I would suspect there is no difference legally between email and voicemail. I had already felt a tad sorry for him and I empathised further when I heard the voicemail as opposed to just reading his words. That is why I mentioned it. Personally, I think you should report him and let the law take its course. However, by publishing the material its probable that you have also violated the act. John Tom,
You’ve raised a good point. I would suspect there is no difference legally between email and voicemail. I had already felt a tad sorry for him and I empathised further when I heard the voicemail as opposed to just reading his words. That is why I mentioned it.

Personally, I think you should report him and let the law take its course. However, by publishing the material its probable that you have also violated the act.

John

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By: Too far North http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/comment-page-1/#comment-111164 Too far North Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:43:49 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/#comment-111164 <strong>How not to promote your business...</strong> Okay, I wasn't going to blog about this, as I thought there was enough coverage on it already.But Grandad just came up with this gem, which is well worth sharing....... How not to promote your business…

Okay, I wasn’t going to blog about this, as I thought there was enough coverage on it already.But Grandad just came up with this gem, which is well worth sharing…….

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By: The Irish blogosphere » Twenty Major - Still smoking in Dublin bars http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/comment-page-1/#comment-111161 The Irish blogosphere » Twenty Major - Still smoking in Dublin bars Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:01:29 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/#comment-111161 [...] Bloke from Monster spams people with poorly written email. Boom. The Blogosphere kicks into life. [...] [...] Bloke from Monster spams people with poorly written email. Boom. The Blogosphere kicks into life. [...]

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By: Tuppenceworth.ie blog » Fustar.org is no more! http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/comment-page-1/#comment-111160 Tuppenceworth.ie blog » Fustar.org is no more! Wed, 03 Oct 2007 09:45:41 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/#comment-111160 [...] others worried about data protection issues, and go so far as to construct small songs on the topic, the big story of the week has been [...] [...] others worried about data protection issues, and go so far as to construct small songs on the topic, the big story of the week has been [...]

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By: Tom Raftery http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/comment-page-1/#comment-111159 Tom Raftery Wed, 03 Oct 2007 09:39:24 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/#comment-111159 John Ward and Adrian - Niall is absolutely correct. If John had apologised or simply accepted responsibility for his actions none of this would have happened. Instead, he went on the attack, all guns blazing so he can hardly complain now that we fired back. As for publishing the voicemail, how is publishing the voicemail different from publishing his emails? They are both simply electronic communications. John Ward and Adrian – Niall is absolutely correct. If John had apologised or simply accepted responsibility for his actions none of this would have happened.

Instead, he went on the attack, all guns blazing so he can hardly complain now that we fired back.

As for publishing the voicemail, how is publishing the voicemail different from publishing his emails? They are both simply electronic communications.

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By: Head Rambles » Blog Archive » The Black Knight and the Monster http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/comment-page-1/#comment-111158 Head Rambles » Blog Archive » The Black Knight and the Monster Wed, 03 Oct 2007 09:33:13 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/#comment-111158 [...] other Knights, Damien Mulley and Tom Raftery also came to defend the villagers and told the Monster to go [...] [...] other Knights, Damien Mulley and Tom Raftery also came to defend the villagers and told the Monster to go [...]

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By: Tis Me http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/comment-page-1/#comment-111157 Tis Me Wed, 03 Oct 2007 09:23:50 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/#comment-111157 Just catching up on al this now! Gold!! Just catching up on al this now!
Gold!!

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By: Niall http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/comment-page-1/#comment-111154 Niall Wed, 03 Oct 2007 09:03:06 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/#comment-111154 @John Ward: "What about data protection?". Exactly! He sent out an email with all the address's in the CC field. He might be an ordinary Joe Soap who doesn't have a clue about email, but instead of trying to learn from his mistake, he went on the defensive. A simple apology would have nipped all this in the bud! I'm not sure if I agree with putting up the voicemail, however it did make for a good laugh. @John Ward: “What about data protection?”. Exactly! He sent out an email with all the address’s in the CC field.

He might be an ordinary Joe Soap who doesn’t have a clue about email, but instead of trying to learn from his mistake, he went on the defensive. A simple apology would have nipped all this in the bud!

I’m not sure if I agree with putting up the voicemail, however it did make for a good laugh.

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By: Sam Robbins http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/comment-page-1/#comment-111153 Sam Robbins Wed, 03 Oct 2007 08:24:26 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/monster-threaten-legal-action-and-ask-me-to-blame-someone-else/#comment-111153 I think the guy was stupid to threaten legal action, in doing so he failed to put his hands up and admit he was wrong. However, I'm relatively new to blogging, and was unaware of any rules R.E. etiquette. Obviously I'm not going to publish peoples contact details without their permission, and equally obviously, libel laws apply just as stringently in electronic media as anywhere else............but I'm getting a bit scared ! I think the guy was stupid to threaten legal action, in doing so he failed to put his hands up and admit he was wrong.
However, I’m relatively new to blogging, and was unaware of any rules R.E. etiquette.
Obviously I’m not going to publish peoples contact details without their permission, and equally obviously, libel laws apply just as stringently in electronic media as anywhere else…………but I’m getting a bit scared !

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